I've spent several days pondering what to do about this. I put up a post Thurs. evening that slammed a CEO strategy I've encountered recently and also slammed a TTFer for some things done in that evening's CEO. I didn't name names then, and I won't now. I apologize for slamming you.

In response to my post, I receive the most offensive piece of mail (PM) that I have ever received in my life. That was not ok. You crossed the line there. I am deeply hurt by your words. I copied and pasted your PM into a reply post so that other TTFers could see just what you said. But I decided that I also crossed a line by posting the PM, and I went back and deleted basically all the posts. I will never read another PM from you, so if you have something to say to me about this post I'm making now, say it on here.

Moving on, I'd like to discuss the question of the one-fog-CEO rule a little more. If I understand correctly, the theory behind the one-fog-only rule is that eventually, as we have more corporate raiders and/or big cheese suits on the vator with us, we encounter a greatly increased number of cogs at the banquet tables, and an extra banquet table. (I've only been in one CEO where the extra table was there--and the tables weren't completely full.) So the one-fog-rule is to "prepare" us for the future, when we'll be facing this. Do I have that right?

Does anyone know just how many corporate raiders it takes in the vator to get the extra banquet table? Two corporate raiders? One corporate raider and one big cheese? How many big cheeses need to be in the vator to get the tables completely full? I admit I haven't read the other site yet to see if the answers are over there--I will (eventually). It seems to me that a better strategy would be to practice some level of gag conservation when we're actually heading into an extra-banquet-table CEO, instead of pretending like we're doing so now. But that means there needs to be a general awareness of just what it takes (suit-wise) to get hit with the extra table. My argument against gag conservation is that I believe it takes longer that way--it takes two rounds to kill most of the regular cogs and 3-4 rounds for the V.2s. Also, most of the toons take on damage that way, which is no big deal if tuned up before they hit the "danger zone," but there also seems to be a difference of opinion as to what constitutes the "danger zone." I'm open to discussion on all of this.

Not to try and re-hash any of what transpired...but I think it's important to remember that IT'S ONLY A GAME! Hateful words are just so inappropriate when you consider the subject. Open debate is good...it helps everyone play better. Unless you are making your living by winning in TT (if you can do this then where do I sign up?) then live with the fact that it's only a game and ALOT of kids are playing so you can't expect things to always go your way. They're only jellybeans...I lost all my lvl 7's tonight in CFO...so what...I'll get them ALL back before I go to sleep tonight. And if I don't....there's always TOMORROW! They're only Jellybeans and they DO grow on trees and they swim in the ponds too.

without the rain there would be no Rainbows...to never lose would make winning a bore. (I HATE to lose )

Now about CEO...I think the strategy is going to end up being SOS restocks and Unites when the tables get full... Unless you do short handed runs, mint, factory, blds etc. when else CAN you use these? it doesn't matter WHAT time of day or night I play, I can always find 3 or 4 toons to do any run with and we don't NEED to use either. So maybe these things are to help us with CEO? You have to be a pretty big toon to even get into CEO so most toons have done VP and CFO and have several of these in stock. (anybody want some Gag up Traps?) I have to "burn" an SOS EVERYTIME I do VP now. They just collect in the book (unless the kiddo sees them ) and to use them is more of a novelty then anything at this point. I dunno... time will tell. I do realize the randomness of what sos or unites you have going in makes it hard to count on as a strategy...but I think it's safe to say that most people doing CEO have more than a couple in their pocket.

I think you brought out a good subject to talk about. I'm still not very far or experienced with the CEO, so I'm not exactly sure what I'm up for quite yet, but I think it's a good idea you brought out from what I understand. Just makin' sure, we're talking about the fog horn gags right? And the reason we would save up on our sound gags is because there might be more of the cogs at tables and in that general room that we'll need to be prepared for if larger suits come in? This sounds like a good idea for some situations, but I also agree with misterchippergigglequack for the reason that there would probably be someone to come in and use an SOS card or a CFO Unite if we were desperately in need of it. Good idea to point out though! I think it would probably work.

Now talking about the other part a little bit, some people can get too wrapped up in a game. People need to RELAX, and they need to know that it's not the end of the world if something doesn't go their way. They just need to remember to have fun and realize that they're other people trying to do the same thing........be courteous of other people and their feelings and remember the golden rule. Let's just all be nice! Terri, YOU ARE AWESOME! You are a great friend, an amazing person, and just so fun to be around! Thanks for all you do!

A few points:

Very few people have been in the high-suit battles, so we really have no clue what to expect. I think it's good to start discussing possibilities, but to start etching anything in stone is premature, to say the least.

I gave my opinion in the other thread: I have never come close to running out of gags. Why not do the underkilling on the final cogs with the gags you have left? Sure, it's prudent to figure out how to do it without level 7s or SOS cards or unites - if we count on those, the time may come where we find ourselves without them! On the other hand, I see no point in hoarding them. The one thing for sure I have to say is, if a team member is low enough in laff that they could go sad from the cogs standing, even if it's unlikely for them all to hit, they should be tooned up -- unless, of course, it's you and you say don't bother.

I admit I don't have a ton of respect for the idea that anyone has the absolute right plan at this point... Well, actually, with anything in ToonTown! There are almost as many "right" ways to do things as there are players.

In general I feel that anyone who is wed to a certain way of doing things needs to arrange a private group of agreeable others. There are too many ways to do things and too many preferences in ToonTown to get all bent out of shape when things don't go your way. If you can't handle playing with others, buy a Wii.

The one fog thing sounds intriguing; I would like to hear more about it, but perhaps this time we could hear it without the jabs at others' intelligence and so forth. Hmm?

I was on an elevator with some mixed levels (just 1 head hunter and 1 cheese head)and had cheese heads at tables I took screenies and I will try to post so you can see suit levels... I always mess this picture thing!
Ok how do you insert the small pics????? OOF!

Well, please answer us then - did you underkill on the first cogs to conserve gags? If not, how on earth did you make it through?

LOL, that was sorta facetious (but only sorta, given the tone of the other thread ). Seriously: did you do anything special during the first cog round? Were gag-up unites used - and if so, could you have gotten through without them? How many cogs were left after the feeding phase? How were they defeated - pink slips, SOS, or just gags?

Personally - I am happy to use gag-up unites. Really, what on earth are you hanging on to them for, otherwise? I don't even use them in 2-toon CFOs anymore. I use them to be "cute" at a key run, or I use them when an invasion starts and I want to work my little toon's drop, or if I forgot to get gags in the golf clun and don't feel oike running back through all the puzzles again since it's just me on my two toons . I even only use my organic 7 because I can; I can't remember the last time I felt I "needed" it. I've started using the other 7s lately just because it seemed foolish to save them when I earn them back SO fast. So I don't get the "hoard them at all costs" mentaility. I don't get it, but I don't insult people over it. To each their own.

BUT -- I don't believe you ever really need them, even if you don't conserve in the first round (unless maybe you're on a short load). That's not to say I think you should quadruple-cake the last cog standing, like you often see in other battles. Just do the math (as best as possible since we still aren't sure of the 2.0 math) and don't stress over it. If you get to the last round with only pies left, so what, do your underkilling then. It takes longer, but it will no matter WHEN you underkill them, and this way you can have them mostly lured and not take so many hits.

I don't personally like to use 3 fogs in a row with only 2 level 12s, because I don't mind taking the hits and it makes more sense to me to save the other fog for later. But if the others put theirs up and it's too late for me to change, go with the flow. Otherwise, if the sound is available, I say kill the whole row! Why not?

Yeah I kind of said my thoughts in the other thread also. I guess the way I look at it is with all the cogs there is no way that sound is going to stay in your gag bag anyway so use em up. Agree with Z that you use what you have in the end and also like she said I've never come close to using up my big gags (or most of my little ones....except of course sound) IF by some miracle I have 7's I usually use them in CEO due to the zzzzzz factor of all the cogs. Get em done as fast as possible. So far the most xtra cogs I can remember fighting was 9 (counting the first one you always get). No scrambling for gags at that time.

On the other side I did one the other day with just a couple of friends and the rest randoms. I was sided with all randoms and it ended up being over or under kill almost everytime. I found that way (the underkill) to cause us to use more gags, larger gags and way too much TU. It lasted forever!

All that said I'm sure there will come a time when toward the end we will be using smaller gags to finish up the larger amount and size of cogs. I don't think (with good team work) that SOS's or Unites will be needed with teamwork. Hopefully by then we'll all have a better idea of what needs to be done and just how many cogs there are and how realistic the number of extras to expect after feeding.

I also agree that if there is a chance that the cogs standing in front of you can kill a toon if all happen to hit them during that round then that toon should be tooned up. (is it correct to say toon 3 times that close together )

The "my way or the highway" attitude of sooooooo many toons lately (granted probably raw on my mind lately as it's been spring break time) makes me want to give in to the mod curse and give up the game. Then I have a rocking night like last Monday in the ceo and all the bad times go away. Nothing worse than a bossy toon. Experienced or new. Sorry...don't take orders in RL and I'm sure not going to in a game. TEACH me is one thing. Boss me is another.

That said.....

......and they all lived happily ever after...... (even after all this babbling)

I have had 4 types of 2nd cog rounds so far
I think it breaks down like this:

- EASY: 8 tables/ 4 Raiders/table: 32 + the 2 BC. Most times everyone can feed all the cogs
- MEDIUM: 9 tables/ 5 BC/table: 45 + 2 BC. Often you cannot feed the last 10-20
- HARD: 10 tables/ 6 raiders per table:
- REALLY HARD: 10 tables mixed BC/Raiders
- I haven't gotten INSANELY Hard

I think if the average # of victories of all toon is > 15-20 you move up from EASY to MED
> 25-30, MED to HARD and so forth

So gag conservation or having gag up unites can become a factor when most of the toons are past their 1st 3 to 4 suits (a bunch of Micromanager all board for instance, no pun intended) OR when you have 2-3 big suits.
1-5 victories = Flunky Suits
6-10 = PP
11-15 = Yesmen
16-20 = micros
etc...

I haven't seen anyone get upset when we over-fog, etc... cuz you have many options in the 2nd round (level7 gags, Fire Cogs, SOS or unites).

Often we do 1 Fog, 2 ele on the opening level 9/level12. I like to cake the 12 so no hits are taken.
I like to minimize any hits or requiring TU's vs conserving gags. So I'd opt to overkill vs underkill.

I enjoyed the run I did w/ TTF and hope I can do a few more.

I think the 1 Fog strategy was mostly to help come up with a no-brainer approach suggested early in the CCG. Mostly cuz people freak out when they run out of fog and start burning thru every level 6 gag they have. Some "rule oriented" folks get easily bent. (but that's a whole nother story)

So far I have never run out gags and very often never see many GU unites or level 7's (except for entertainment value). Then again, I run almost all my runs with randoms, evenings unless someone invites me to a run.

LST

I didn't read all of the posts, so I am sorry if what I post here doesn't make any sense.

I handle the CEO the same way that I handle every type of battle in TT. I go with the flow. If I have a certain strategy that I want to use, I hang out with friends who are going to use that same strategy.

I have had lost of Big Cheeses in the second cog battle for probably about half of my CEOs. If people use their heads, it doesn't have to take a long time. I will use any level 7 and I will fire a cog or two just to speed up the battle. I have done it in a very small amount of time using the one fog strategy and also using the 3fogs when there are level 12s. My personal experience is that it really doesn't make much difference. It all boils down to who are you sided with in the battle. Are they all going to wait to pick last? That is what takes a long time. Or, of course throwing out a sandtrap on a 12 which causes the throw gags to miss. It doesn't matter how many cogs there are. The amount of time is all about the people who you are sided with and if they want to make it take a long time or if they want to speed through it.

Oh yeah! Tonight I went with CCG. They were doing the one fog thing, so I went with the flow. We had some toon raiders and other larger suit (as a pencil pusher, I was the lowest suit). We had the medium battle and had about 11 or 12 cogs left at the tables. We did not use any Unites and I still had a couple of big gags left (but no fogs or trunks!!). So, I think the one fog thing is good for when you are expecting the med and on up. My feeling is that you shouldn't have to depend on Unites or SOSs.

Another interesting strategy with these toons (and there were a few I know from sight that I respect) was that no one golfed at all. Is that usual??

Oh there is a big debate over golf or no golf..... People are very strong minded on this issue as well. I just go with the flow. IT"S A GAME! It's suppose to be fun not stressful.

I also was on a no golf run!!! and won Sooo I guess if you have good squirters
getting those 6 hits, it should be fine.... I know that golf does slow him down tremendously with plenty of time to jump off table but if your quick and nimble I guess you coulds easily do no golf

I've personally never seen golf do any good. Even when treads are red, which seems to happen only rarely, I just don't see enough of a difference to justify doing it. So, I will never golf. But if others want to, I won't stress over it.

The other night, though, we lost 2 players and people were still golfing. That's the only run I've ever been in long enough for him to do the reorganization thing, so I wish in that case the people had stopped golfing (the treads were not changing color at all anyway) and helped at the tables. We did win, but it took forever!

I'll golf if there are at least 2 other toons at the start. Once his treads are red then I hop on a table. It does make a difference as far as him running around like a crazy boss man. If he's red you can get a hit in while he's aiming for you since he's moving so slowly toward you, before you jump off a table. Bottom line is much more warning etc vs running you over before you know what hit you. If nobody is golfing (or only one) then I go directly to the tables.

Tried one last night and went sad for the first time in forever. It never fails I seem to get hit once toward the beginning of the round. No clue why it always happens but it does I'm "usually" pretty ok after that (now that I'm learning) but last night he seemed to have it out for the cute little duck. He was taking turns running people over and one point so often that you didn't have time to even jump off your table and there he was. He was also saying fore faster than you could jump off or back on your table. Needless to say toons were getting hit left and right. (even ones who know what to do......was sort of beyond our control...never saw him so "forey" before. Two toons dropped right away (brand new suits) and 2 others did nothing but run around like crazy toons yelling for a TU. Ummm not sure quite what they wanted us to do about it (sorry...out of unites. If I had some I would have saved myself at the end) Anyway HUGE pet peeve for boss......

DO NOT push toons into the line of fire (golf balls) while jumping over them on the treat belt. This happened to me twice in the end with the same toon. I yelled at them...the said "sorry" then 10 seconds later did it again. Another toon did do the same thing but it didn't put me in the line of fire. Not sure why toons think they deserve the treats more than another. Granted if I was at a good laff and hogging the treats I could see it (one point I was at 3). Just trying to get enough laff to take a hit or two and get back on the table. If another toon is there and I need Tu I wait or check the other belt. I do not or would not push someone out of the way to save myself. Don't expect others to do it either.

Sorry for the rant. Sick...everyone in the house is sick. In a mood and selfish toons just make me go UGGGGGG! Just planned on saying how it does help to golf sometimes

I have seen good golfers turn the treads red and slow him down. I have never seen it shorten the actual time that we spend in there. All of the golfless CEOs I have been on, have been quicker. I know people like to golf because they get hit less. Personally, I'd rather get hit and get the battle done quicker.

It is hard for me to keep up with what we "should or should not" do in CEO. I was on a CCG run last weekend. I figured I would squirt as a change of pace - there were more experienced toons there and thought it would be a breeze. Ugh - the CEO was running all over the place, and then I realized there was only one other golfing. SO I ran over to help golf instead. I did miss one Fore, but then got hit several times without the fore, but he decided to throw golf balls at me anyways. SOmeone else was always at the snack table, and I had no unites. It took forever, and I was actually relieved when I went sad. My son was not happy about it though.

Last night in the friends run I was watching someone (sorry didn't see who) putting -2 hits on him from a center table and they were getting 3 -2 hits in the same time it took me to get the bottle yellow for a -4. The same for a -6, they got 4 -2 hits on him before I could get my bottle charged to red just so I could miss time it and start over The red treads allow a lot more of these -2 hits, like someone said, even when he's coming right at you... I was sided with Master Beany (soundless) and it all works out fine ESPECIALLY with the V2's. I will say this about SOS and Unites now that I said the other in the post above...Someone used a Gag up squirt about mid way through the first round of cogs in a random battle I did and it fills your backpack with squirtguns and such, so you might wanna think about what you put on other people ? (I would have used GU throw) So far I haven't seen any toon go green in the cog parts so I think this is a non-issue really. The "accepted best strategy" that people will eventually come up with is really for the OCD toons and the toons that come after,who aren't OCD but are courteous and don't wan't to upset these "old wise toons" of toontown who have tested the strategies on their abacuses and should not be questioned.
I've ALWAYS got Magnets $10 bills and TU's left over after EVERY battle...and I know they do to, and so do you (if you got those tracks) so I'm with the "go with the flow crowd" (makes me understand Greifing now )

I honestly think the single MOST important strategy to winning is playing the TTF way...(I know I've said this in other threads but...) By trying as a group to put the most hits on the Boss to win the battle and make sure EVERYONE dances is the key to victory. The time it takes to run over to the dumb waiter for a +1 snack could have been -10 on the Boss if those toons would quit having a cow when they loose a tooth. You see it in lots of random boss battles...these little "circle jerk" Toon up sessions where toons waste a whole load of evidence fixing that smile "OH NO I'M AT 79!" when the same time COULD be spent stunning cogs and helping the team and maybe getting that awesome +10 for stunning them ALL while the other side puts their evidence in the SCALE where it belongs!"Stop That!"...phew...sorry I've been doing Law lately I don't wanna get started on the CFO and VP I don't care What you do, I'm winning. This was about CEO... eventually the other Site will post the "RULES" of running CEO with them and over here we will smile and dance sometimes... and sometimes we may have to try again.
The safest rule; Play Nice