When did we become a country that punishes and/or demonizes those who are successful in business and life? I keep hearing it's not fair that this person or company make so much money. Isn't that the American dream? Put your mind to something and succeed in it?
I was really surprised that McCain was being looked down on for owning too many houses. My first thought when I heard he owned multiple homes was, 'Wow, he must really know how to manage money.' How is managing money well a bad thing?
Stay on that soapbox, pkdmrd, while opening cans of worms. I love this discussion.
At one time, I couldn't tell you the difference between profit and profit margins. Working for a family owned company has really opened my eyes to these terminologies.
And ditto what you you said about the governments profitting off of these guys. And it's no just on a federal level either. It's on a state and local level. And not just the taxes that they get charged, but all the different formulations that has to be processed to be "enviromentally" friendly.
And the solution to our oil problem is to tax them more? Seriously? Do people really think that taxing these guys more is the answer to our oil needs?
If you really want to talk about excess profits, let's look into our federal government. Where the budget is in the TRILLIONS now. Where is the outrage (from our representatives and senators) in that?
LittleWacky :
I was really surprised that McCain was being looked down on for owning too many houses. My first thought when I heard he owned multiple homes was, 'Wow, he must really know how to manage money.' How is managing money well a bad thing?
I hear ya, LW. But to answer your question (which I know is rhetorical) is IT ISN'T! But for a while now the media has worked from the angle that somehow being "rich" is a bad thing. I remembered when I was young that I wanted to be "rich" when I grew up. And now it's a bad thing. Well, I still hope to be one of those "evil" people one day.
Edited by tgibbsjr on Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:26 pm: Saw LW's response and wanted to respond without spamming.
I keep hearing one ad touting the $1000 tax refund for every family, paid for by taxing the big oil company profits. First of all, you can't have a windfall profits tax on one industry - it's a constitutional thing (they would have to tax all companies profits, not just the oil companies); secondly, where do you think these companies will recoup these taxes from. Bingo! From us the consumers.
DA Bear is correct on gov. regulations making gas prices higher. Diesal for instance use to be the cheap gas to buy but now the oil companies have to refine the diesal to make it "ultra low sulfer" and the price has skyrocketed.
I think that anyone running for president should be required to have business experience, they should know how to balance the books. No more lawyers!!!
I was going to add this to my post but saw there were several other posts since then, so I guess I'm technically not double posting.
What's really funny/ironic is most (if not all) those lawmakers that "villianize" the rich are worth millions themselves. I have no problem with the fact they have wealth in and of itself. I do however, feel that the more wealth you have, the more you are morally obligated to help your fellow human (see Bill Gates for example) and if they don't do that, then that is just greed. Maybe some feel that just the fact that someone is successfully rich, then they are greedy, but I don't think that way.
When did we become a country that punishes and/or demonizes those who are successful in business and life? I keep hearing it's not fair that this person or company make so much money. Isn't that the American dream? Put your mind to something and succeed in it?
I was really surprised that McCain was being looked down on for owning too many houses. My first thought when I heard he owned multiple homes was, 'Wow, he must really know how to manage money.' How is managing money well a bad thing?
I heard about this on ESPN Radio (imagine that). He said he thought he owned about 9, but it was really about 10. Now, I'm not sure why this is important at all. I would think that it'd be a good thing because it shows he had wise investments and managed it well. Isn't the good management of money a good quality of a leader and not a bad one?
Here's the thing about the "McCain owns how much?" question. There's a little law in the books which is in place to prevent him from knowing his wife's assets. It applies to all our Washington Congressmen and women. It's there to prevent the elected officials from being able to enter into inappropriate legislative actions. When he was initially asked, he responded that he would have to check and get back, basically. See, he and his wife have these separate assets that they both own. His response was in line with someone of integrity, who applies the rules of congressional ethics. I don't say that I agree or disagree with his positions on various issues. On this one, he wins, and the other side loses - if the facts are reviewed in depth beyond the media hype.
As others have said, research the issues. Be smart. Campaigning is being done by more than just the candidates.
Here's the thing about the "McCain owns how much?" question. There's a little law in the books which is in place to prevent him from knowing his wife's assets. It applies to all our Washington Congressmen and women. It's there to prevent the elected officials from being able to enter into inappropriate legislative actions. When he was initially asked, he responded that he would have to check and get back, basically. See, he and his wife have these separate assets that they both own. His response was in line with someone of integrity, who applies the rules of congressional ethics. I don't say that I agree or disagree with his positions on various issues. On this one, he wins, and the other side loses - if the facts are reviewed in depth beyond the media hype.
As others have said, research the issues. Be smart. Campaigning is being done by more than just the candidates.
Seriously? How can they enforce this? Can you imagine not knowing what your spouse owns in real estate? How much they are worth? (heck I know how many pairs of socks mine has.....and where he TRIES to hide money and how much is there )! Dont' these people talk? "Oh honey I picked up the cutest condo today...." Guess Congress isn't a community property place huh?
Yeah - you would think a house might have come up in conversation around the dinner table
Of course, the point of the commercial is that while many of the middle class are struggling because of hard times, McCain doesn't remember what it is like to have to put something back on the grocery shelf because you don't have the money or only get $10 of gas in the car because that is all you have until payday.
As someone else has mentioned - there aren't many politicians that DO remember this. Most come from upper middle to the wealthy. I did have a boss once that was totally oblivious to the rich/poor divide. I had moved from Texas (with the shirt on my back pretty much) and I mentioned missing my friends. He said - Why don't you just fly down Friday night for the weekend? Oh yeah - get a last minute flight that costs $750 and hotels for whatever and a rental car when I'm living with my parents again to save money and pay off divorce debt. Ummmm, not so much.
My Dad wouldn't be able to tell you how many properties he owns right off the bat, either. But then, he also says "nucular", and he is one of the smartest people I know, so that never bothered me about anyone else either.
I too have been struggling who I would like to vote for this election... I have a lot of issues with the two party system. I do not think it is right to elect someone just based on the little letter (R) or (D) behind their name.
Anyhow, I have been looking for a viable alternative to the two candidates as I am not satisfied with either of them. I ran across this site in my searching. Give it a look, especially the issues tab. I haven't decided if this candidate is right for me either, but for those that do not want to vote for either one of the major party nominees should take a look.
As to the enforcement of "the rule", I have no idea. I'm glad I don't have to try. I'll search again and try to find the information for your review. Post or PM to follow later.
I have not educated myself enough to debate or choose a candidate yet. I am listed as a Republican, but have never, (in my voting years), stuck to "a party". From what little knowledge I do have, the "parties" "meant" something years ago. In my humble opinion, it is not like it used to be. The elections I have been able to vote in, I did not vote for who I WANTED as President, but rather, the lesser of two evils. (Yeah, a little dramatic sounding, but I think you know what I mean).
My husband and I do not agree on religion or politics. He has studied them extensively, and knows his history on both... Or so he has me believeing, lol. So my theory of "gut feeling" for my first basis, and what kind of a family-man these 2/4 (President & Vice), just about drives him up the wall. He mentioned some GREAT Presidents who were more than "questionable" regarding family. Perhaps, (and probably, they were), but times change and focus and right/wrong have changed. (IMHO). I feel if they don't have the family base, they don't support the basic christian values that this country was built upon. (I guess it is a TRUST factor to me). Then I move on to the issues and platforms. Next, it's time to research and separate fact from fiction or half-truths.
Last night, Paul, (hubby), didn't get WHY I was watching the Democrat thingy. He mentioned I have been involved in many Republican doings, including having VIP tickets and meeting President Bush twice. Local things where Senetors etc know me by face or name. Plain and simple, I was invited, so I went. What I thought of Bush in 2003 is not the same now. I understand that the husband, although gone for over 3 years in 5 years thinks differently than me, while in Iraq. He is a soldier, I am not. We agree to disagree on that as well. I BELIEVE Sadam HAD to be taken out of power. It was a situation like Hitler. SOMEBODY had to step in. But, the reasons "we" gave proved to be false/wrong. (Although I have been told by many the WOMD were found.... But like you, I have seen no proof). And it doesn't seem they want us there now.... We have shown them the basics.... The dictator is gone. ??????
I was really impressed with Biden's acceptance speech, and more so, his son's speech as to the kind of man Biden is.
Husband said he really didn't do much in his job in Washington, and that the Vice really doesn't do much, so who cares. I told Hubby (politely) to put a cork in it and let me listen.
I need to go back (tomorrow) to read the link on the electoral votes, because I don't get why it is not just who gets more votes. Doesn't seem fair. Hubby says it is perfectly logical. So thank you for the link. It will be interesting to read.
Basically, I haven't a clue yet as to who to vote for. I won't vote just merely for a "party."
What I DID come here to say was that I really love how this topic is being discussed without mud-slinging, ripping on others, that people ARE respecting others opinions etc and just DISCUSSING/DEBATING with such kindness and respect. I wish personal life wasn't so nuts so that I could just be hanging with you all! Haven't been able to play TT for *thinks* 2 months? Miss you all!
Well...I've not said too much here, but I do have to say that I'm pleasantly surprised with McCain's Veep....
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin....I think she's a great pick. I think what's going to matter is the people that John McCain chooses to be in his cabinet will be what makes a difference here. I think adding Lieberman, Romney, and a few others will balance things off. Looking forward to seeing who else is added.
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin....I think she's a great pick.
I don't know anything about her. I am looking forward to learning more about her.
She sounds wonderful...please click the box, I copied an article I received today from NewsMax....
Hidden:
Headline Story RSS ARCHIVE
Palin Speaks to Newsmax About McCain, Abortion, Climate Change
Friday, August 29, 2008 10:40 AM
By: Mike Coppock Article Font Size
(Sarah Palin has emerged as John McCain's vice-presidential running mate. Palin talked to Newsmax magazine for its upcoming September 2008 issue about Alaskan oil, global warming, and John McCain.)
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is a God-fearing, gun-toting former beauty queen who could just become America’s next vice president.
In Alaska, the right to bear arms means staying on top of the food chain. Palin, a lifelong member of the National Rifle Association, hunts, shoots, and fishes.
Husband Todd holds a commercial fishing license for salmon. In the mid-1990s, when Todd got a job working on Alaska’s North Slope, Palin decided to occupy herself by becoming mayor of Wasilla, the state's fastest-growing community.
As mayor, she gradually grew frustrated with Alaska’s “good ol’ boy” style of governance -- so she decided to do something about it. She ran for governor in 2006 and won, defeating popular former Democratic Gov. Tony Knowles.
Palin’s victory made her Alaska's first female chief executive, and its youngest.
Now, many insiders believe this 44-year-old mother of five would add a strong conservative presence to the GOP ticket.
Palin tells Newsmax that it’s high time Congress allows the development of Alaska’s wealth of oil and gas. She doubts global warming stems from human activity, and she considers herself both a fiscal and social conservative.
Are you open to running as McCain’s vice president?
Palin: I have so much on my plate as governor, it’s hard to even imagine such an offer. I would just have to cross that bridge when it comes.
What do you think of McCain’s chances, and what should he and the GOP do to win in November?
I believe John McCain will be our next president. To win, he needs to continue his message that America needs leadership devoted to the public interest -- not the special interest. The GOP needs to live the planks of its platform, not just offer lip service.
How did you pull off your election victory as governor?
Alaska was ready for a positive change and tired of the good ol’ boy network. It caused many Alaskans to lose faith in their government. People want faith in their government. I have been able to pass a comprehensive reform law and place the state's checkbook online. You can be a reformer and also be a conservative.
And your stand on abortion?
I'm pro-life. I'll do all I can to see every baby is created with a future and potential. The legislature should do all it can to protect human life.
Politically, how would you describe yourself?
Fiscally and socially, I am a conservative. My respect for the three different branches of government and the balance between them has been my guide.
If you were running for president, what causes would you champion?
I would push for a strong military and a sound energy policy. I believe that Alaska can help set an example on energy policy.
Speaking of energy, how much oil and gas does America really have?
We have billions and billions of barrels of oil and trillions of feet of natural gas. We have so much potential from tapping our resources here in Alaska. And we can do this with minimum environmental impact. We have a very pro-development president in President Bush, and yet he failed to push for opening up parts of Alaska to drilling through Congress -- and a Republican-controlled Congress, I might add.
I thought when we hit $100 a barrel for oil it would have been a psychological barrier that would have caused Congress to reconsider, but they didn't. Now we are approaching $200 a barrel. It's nonsense not to tap a safe domestic source of oil. I think Americans need to hold Congress accountable on this one.
What is your take on global warming and how is it affecting our country?
A changing environment will affect Alaska more than any other state, because of our location. I'm not one though who would attribute it to being man-made.
I just got off the phone with my high school friend who lives in Alaska (lives just 13 miles from Wasilla, Palin's hometown). I asked her about Palin, and her views on her. She said, "What a wonderful choice he's (McCain) made!!! She's just the most wonderful Governor, her approval rating is in the 80% here."
I looked it up...
In 2007, Palin had an approval rating often above 90%. A poll published by Hays Research on July 28, 2008 showed Palin's approval rating at 80%, while another Ivan Moore poll showed it at 76%.
Ok - to open yet another can of worms here.
Let me say first. I did not vote for the current mayor of my city for one reason. The mayorship is a part-time job. This guy has a full-time job which involves a 30 minute or more commute each way. He has a wife and 6 kids. I felt that he should not be adding 8 to 20 hours a week more where he is away from his family.
Now, on to Sarah Palin. She sounds like she has accomplished a lot. However, she now has a 4 month old baby with Down's Syndrome. Have any of you had experience with Down's Syndrome? It is extremely important that this child be given as much support right now as possible for development. Is spending time traveling and then moving to Wash, DC and not having her mom with her really right for this child?
I am an adamant feminist, but I am also extremely child-centric. If you bring a child into this world, their needs (in my opinion) need to come first because they cannot do it for themselves. So, as much I as I would LOVE to see a woman in the VP slot, I don't agree this is the one. Why not choose someone like Olympia Snowe instead?
Ok - to open yet another can of worms here.
Let me say first. I did not vote for the current mayor of my city for one reason. The mayorship is a part-time job. This guy has a full-time job which involves a 30 minute or more commute each way. He has a wife and 6 kids. I felt that he should not be adding 8 to 20 hours a week more where he is away from his family.
Now, on to Sarah Palin. She sounds like she has accomplished a lot. However, she now has a 4 month old baby with Down's Syndrome. Have any of you had experience with Down's Syndrome? It is extremely important that this child be given as much support right now as possible for development. Is spending time traveling and then moving to Wash, DC and not having her mom with her really right for this child?
I am an adamant feminist, but I am also extremely child-centric. If you bring a child into this world, their needs (in my opinion) need to come first because they cannot do it for themselves. So, as much I as I would LOVE to see a woman in the VP slot, I don't agree this is the one. Why not choose someone like Olympia Snowe instead?
I believe the child is a boy, Trig? You can't be a mom of a special needs child and have a career?
If it was her husband that was chosen, this would not be an issue. I really don't believe she would have said yes if it would harm her child.
I don't think you have opened a can of worms. I see your point, and agree that any child, especially one with a disability, needs to have their needs come first. However, my response is what is wrong with the dad providing this need, if the mom is working outside the home? Or, if they are both working and married, then share the responsiblity? Also, wouldn't the entire family move to the VP's house in DC if she became VP? In addition, how many VPs and Presidents and Senators and Congresspeople don't have nannies and au-pairs and others around to assist with the day to day things? If any kid is going to get the needed early intervention, I'm sure it will be Gov. Palin's son. I know nannies, etc are not the same as the parent, but that gets into the should mom work or not issue which I don't think that can ever be resolved.
As most of you know, I have a child (14) with severe autism. I don't work outside the home. Which, luckily, we are able to afford at this time by deciding what is our priority monetarily for our family. However, there are many (if not most) parents of kids with disabilities who don't have that choice. Who knows if Gov Palin has that choice--would she have to work to help support her family if she wasn't in politics? If so, then why not have a job as Governor of a state or VP of the US? The pay is probably a lot better than most jobs in her town.
I'd be interested in other's opinions on this subject too.
Palin was a topic today in my government class. By looking around the room, I would easily say that I'm the oldest in the class. Some ripped on her for the situation with her daughter right now, but no one mentioned the fact that she has the child with special needs. Actually, I was the only one in class who had heard of her before she was nominated.
As for the 'rich' running government, that is a big concern and relates to the possibility of having an elitist government where a few (wealthy) individuals are making the decisions. It's pretty tough to get a qualified person who is not wealthy to consider running for office, considering most still need to support their family in some way, shape or form. We can get into pluralism, in which the interest groups are influencing the decisions or the current situation of hyperpluralism; where we have the gridlock that has occurred so much within this current Congress.
Back to the electoral college, it goes way back to the Constitutional days and I believe it would take an amendment to change it's existence.
now. Where is the outrage (from our representatives and senators) in that?
)! Dont' these people talk? "Oh honey I picked up the cutest condo today...." Guess Congress isn't a community property place huh?
